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Tulpa Discussion / tulpa-questions-2
Overflow channel for #tulpa-questions Forum Link to Tulpa Questions: https://community.tulpa.info/forum/13-tulpa-questions-answers/
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:50 PM
i mean unless someone tells you what to believe with authority, then some people might not have much control
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
if you have a situation in your brain when you even need to bothered by consensus with those things, it means you have imbalanced system things like that should be mutual almost immediately. otherwise it gets unnecessary drama
Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 6:51 PM
Yes ideally that kind of drama shouldn't arise in the first place, but whether it "should" or "shouldn't" has nothing to do with whether it is possible or not
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
i would ask you to stop telling people to stop (edited)
ur gonna cause people paranoia by saying tulpas arent seperate from the host
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Abvieon {Alex}
Yes ideally that kind of drama shouldn't arise in the first place, but whether it "should" or "shouldn't" has nothing to do with whether it is possible or not
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:51 PM
yep! entirely possible
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
i mean unless someone tells you what to believe with authority, then some people might not have much control
Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 6:51 PM
E x a c t l y This is why forcing your own ethics on another can be v. bad
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poochball
ur gonna cause people paranoia by saying tulpas arent seperate from the host
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:51 PM
sheeesh where did i even suggest that
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
just to validate your separateness?
.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:52 PM
please don't reply to my messages
6:52 PM
sorry i can't waste my time explaining obvious meaning behind my words
6:52 PM
your interpretation is wrong
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Abvieon {Alex}
Yes ideally that kind of drama shouldn't arise in the first place, but whether it "should" or "shouldn't" has nothing to do with whether it is possible or not
if i dont wanna have sex with my tulpa i can say no so should my tulpa be able to ?
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:53 PM
i do think hosts and tulpas can be extremely separate
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A long kiss goodnight 8/15/2021 6:54 PM
I don't think it's a bad thing to state tulpas are not completely separate from their hosts. Complete separation is impossible, that's more or less a fact. How separate is more of a debate, and I don't think it's fair to claim any opinion on this is right or wrong
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if u believe they are seperate it can lessen paranoia from my expirence
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:54 PM
what we can say is that people experience very wide range of separateness and their experience is true
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poochball
if u believe they are seperate it can lessen paranoia from my expirence
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:54 PM
what can lessen paranoia is not be insecure about separateness
6:55 PM
because that leads you to many potential disturbances
6:55 PM
but that's easier to say than do
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Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 6:55 PM
Yeah separation isn't a black and white thing. There are varying degrees and varying types of separation. Though a tulpa is separate enough to say no to things and not always go along with what the host wants/expects.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:55 PM
(for some people)
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poochball
if u believe they are seperate it can lessen paranoia from my expirence
A long kiss goodnight 8/15/2021 6:55 PM
I think that's fine, it's good to know that philosophy works for you, but keep in mind what works for you doesn't always apply to others.
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Abvieon {Alex}
Yeah separation isn't a black and white thing. There are varying degrees and varying types of separation. Though a tulpa is separate enough to say no to things and not always go along with what the host wants/expects.
Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 6:56 PM
I would say at least some of the time, but we're going into definition of what makes a tulpa.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:56 PM
imagine you are a brain of two headmates: one wants sexy time another doesn't want it with that, the brain experiences rejection, and also rejecting someone + possibly feeling creepy about the whole situation
6:56 PM
i can't see it as not disrupting the life of someone
6:56 PM
especially if someone has rejection problems (edited)
6:57 PM
which is why i think in that regard system should be built in a way where headmates have mutual feelings like that (edited)
6:57 PM
and it's ok
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rejection problems?
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:57 PM
>google
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Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 6:57 PM
Also, Tulpas not being completely separate is like the major selling point for a lot of people.
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how
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Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈
Also, Tulpas not being completely separate is like the major selling point for a lot of people.
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:58 PM
yeah exactly
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Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 6:58 PM
The headmate who was rejected experiences the rejection. Though there is emotional bleed and all.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:58 PM
if there was 100% separateness it would be same as interacting with another human being
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6:58 PM
people in relationships with their tulpas are saying that tulpamancy provides a complete level of relationship BECAUSE of the conectedness (edited)
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Abvieon {Alex}
The headmate who was rejected experiences the rejection. Though there is emotional bleed and all.
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:59 PM
the brain experiences rejection which is where the bleeds come from
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I feel like it's going to be relatively difficult for a person to cause real mental harm through self inflicted or internal conflict like that. Possible, for sure, and I wouldn't doubt if it did happen on occasion, but I also feel like a lot of times those issues are encountered they are expressions of pre-existing insecurities or rejection-concerns more-so than issues caused by a person's interactions with their tulpa.
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Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 6:59 PM
Well it is interacting with a human being. Just with a certain level of closeness and "telepathy" you don't see with those in separate bodies
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Abvieon {Alex}
The headmate who was rejected experiences the rejection. Though there is emotional bleed and all.
so if my tulpa was rejected id expirence that too
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Reguile
I feel like it's going to be relatively difficult for a person to cause real mental harm through self inflicted or internal conflict like that. Possible, for sure, and I wouldn't doubt if it did happen on occasion, but I also feel like a lot of times those issues are encountered they are expressions of pre-existing insecurities or rejection-concerns more-so than issues caused by a person's interactions with their tulpa.
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 6:59 PM
totally agreed
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poochball
so if my tulpa was rejected id expirence that too
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:00 PM
your brain would
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so if my tulpa was rejected id expirence that too
@poochball - jump Yeah. The same goes with tulpa being raped, as we discussed earlier
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:00 PM
ummm i'm actually wondering
7:00 PM
has anyone here ever rejected or has been rejected by another headmate (edited)
7:01 PM
i wish we could hear from them
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I have heard occasional stories of something like that happening - but I couldn't cite anything directly - I do think it happens
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:01 PM
i wish we could ask them about the experience though
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I think the 90% case is host has a desire to fill that niche - tulpa shows up - tulpa inevitably expresses some sort of interest in the host and the host says "well I'd never push it on them but since they asked..."
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Nao
so if my tulpa was rejected id expirence that too
@poochball - jump Yeah. The same goes with tulpa being raped, as we discussed earlier
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:02 PM
with tulpas being forced to do do sexy time, it doesn't really need to be a "bad" thing. people do have bdsm phantasies where someone is forced. the difference between bdsm and tulpamancy is that tulpamancy doesn't need a secret word, because noone is getting a physical harm
7:03 PM
(and people do have phantasies of being forced, too)
7:03 PM
(which in a brain where it can experience forcing and being forced, that perfect for someone with bdsm tendenceis)
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
the brain experiences rejection which is where the bleeds come from
Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 7:03 PM
Emotional bleed is not 100% the same as experiencing something first-hand
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
with tulpas being forced to do do sexy time, it doesn't really need to be a "bad" thing. people do have bdsm phantasies where someone is forced. the difference between bdsm and tulpamancy is that tulpamancy doesn't need a secret word, because noone is getting a physical harm
bro if the tulpa says no then no
7:03 PM
fantasies are a thing
7:03 PM
but if its a serious no
7:03 PM
im not comfy
7:03 PM
then dont force
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:03 PM
then don't force your tulpa jesus
7:03 PM
lol
7:04 PM
noone forces you to force your tulpa to do it
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
with tulpas being forced to do do sexy time, it doesn't really need to be a "bad" thing. people do have bdsm phantasies where someone is forced. the difference between bdsm and tulpamancy is that tulpamancy doesn't need a secret word, because noone is getting a physical harm
Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 7:04 PM
There is actual force, and there is play/fantasy "force", which isn't really non-consensual, everyone involved just pretends it is
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Abvieon {Alex}
Emotional bleed is not 100% the same as experiencing something first-hand
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:04 PM
yeah but if someone experiences stress for 10h, everyone experiences high levels of kortizol
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Unfastened Belts 8/15/2021 7:04 PM
So this weird conversation is still happening
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Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 7:04 PM
And I would say both are possible in a system (edited)
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
has anyone here ever rejected or has been rejected by another headmate (edited)
Unfastened Belts 8/15/2021 7:05 PM
Relevant
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Abvieon {Alex}
There is actual force, and there is play/fantasy "force", which isn't really non-consensual, everyone involved just pretends it is
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:05 PM
how can something be more play/fantasy than things happening in head
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Unfastened Belts
So this weird conversation is still happening
Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 7:05 PM
Welcome to .info, frontier of human thought and cybernetics
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Abvieon {Alex}
There is actual force, and there is play/fantasy "force", which isn't really non-consensual, everyone involved just pretends it is
there is a thing called cnc which is basically that
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk
how can something be more play/fantasy than things happening in head
Abvieon {Alex} 8/15/2021 7:07 PM
By that logic... any argument or disagreement had with a tulpa would be irrelevant and silly and pointless because it's "happening in your head." I need to drive home the point that there is a massive difference between doing something with an imaginary puppet and doing something with a being that has independent will and consciousness. They are not entirely the same because both are experienced "in your head"
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:09 PM
if you want to interpret your experience which has a potential to make you upset what other people do with their own brain then sure, go for it, you have power to do that
7:09 PM
it is literally happening in your head
7:09 PM
those things are real because you believe they are
7:09 PM
you can make exceptions
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no u cant
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:09 PM
how long have you been doing tulpamancy pooch?
7:11 PM
your beliefs not only form your experience but they also form the empathy you have of what is happening in someone else's system/someone else's brain, your reactions to that are based on that
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Abvieon {Alex}
By that logic... any argument or disagreement had with a tulpa would be irrelevant and silly and pointless because it's "happening in your head." I need to drive home the point that there is a massive difference between doing something with an imaginary puppet and doing something with a being that has independent will and consciousness. They are not entirely the same because both are experienced "in your head"
Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 7:11 PM
If you have internal rules about treating headmates as independent and respecting that independence, there's going to be internal consequences to breaking those rules.
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Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈
If you have internal rules about treating headmates as independent and respecting that independence, there's going to be internal consequences to breaking those rules.
KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:11 PM
yeah
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I would compare it to your ability to bite your finger off - your mouth is powerful enough to do it - but you have a number of pretty strong safeguards preventing you from doing it despite that.
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Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 8/15/2021 7:12 PM
I am intrigued but I don't get it yet.
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Hold the fuck up people are talkin' 'bout bdsm tuppers without me?
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thats irrelevant to the convo if a tulpa says no back off and respect it it might be in ur head but morally speaking no still matters if they say no and u think its okay then id have concerns for u
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Deleted User 8/15/2021 7:13 PM
PepeUnamused
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:13 PM
if you think it has nothing to do with convo, i think you missed most of it
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What if a tulpa likes rapeplay?
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if you want to interpret your experience which has a potential to make you upset what other people do with their own brain then sure, go for it, you have power to do that
You're not wrong. But what you're describing isn't a tulpa.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:14 PM
how do you mean?
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If you're not accepting the independence and agency of the entity then... well.. that's just a character.
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Kanade
What if a tulpa likes rapeplay?
then thats difffrent as thats usually agreed before called consent non consent which is the same
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Perhaps a well-developed one at best.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:14 PM
no, i am accepting full independence
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You're accepting independence up until the point where it's inconvenient to consider. I don't see that as any different than dissociating from the suffering of regular empathy grade thoughtforms (edited)
7:16 PM
Or at least that's what you seemed to be suggesting.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:17 PM
inconvenient to consider? i mean host is dependent on all the beliefs in their head
7:17 PM
in the first place
7:17 PM
i'm talking about setting up rules
7:17 PM
because you have power for that
7:17 PM
so you make rules, and yet you are still independent
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Zen
If you're not accepting the independence and agency of the entity then... well.. that's just a character.
Can be complicated - there are degrees to which this can be the case - you could have an extreme full-acceptance-no-safeguards where every intrusive or errant thought is accepted and see degrees of "shutdown" incerasing from that point until there is no acceptance-of-independence and then you have just a character - but all the between points are where people will actually fall in regards to how they do tulpamancy.
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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk 8/15/2021 7:17 PM
need to go 👍 good convo
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